It's great to see this change in direction.

I had the opportunity to drive a Tesla recently, and I was pretty blown away by how hostile the ux was. Even the indicator stalk has no tactile feedback leading to me indicating left then right multiple times after completing a simple lane change (as I pushed it slightly too far for the lane change mode so it didn't shut off automatically). Don't get me started on things like the AC and window wipers being behind the touchscreen, it's like they designed it to require a copilot.

It's driver aid features also get easily tricked leading to random steering corrections and slamming on the brakes. I'd love to know if anyone's analyzed the rate of rear end collisions compared to older/simpler cars, as I suspect it could be statistically higher.

It was also fairly amusing parking it in the garage - it seemed to mistake our dog for a motorbike and the other vehicle as a truck with the 3 of us colliding, glad it didn't try and automatically phone in the "collisions"

I wonder how many people have literally been injured or died due to this pursuit for better "design". And it applies not only to touch screen (which is a total madness), but to real buttons as well - those buttons need not only to be physical, but have different form/some tactile differentiation.

What's happening with touch screens is total mess due to car designers trying to circumvent regulations (e.g., can't have that screen in front of a driver, or projected over the windshield) - so they are forced to move it to a side, which makes operating it while driving more dangerous.

But even button's design is falling prey of it, with buttons hidden way below the top of the dashboard, made of the same size, etc. It takes forever to scan & find the right button (e.g. internal air) while driving.

And I don't see it as just some recent trend (although there's much more of it). Even 10-12 years ago, this way already a problem.

One example of stupidity: Toyota Sienna 2013 has brightness control for its media screen (which also shows back up camera) via a touch screen button. Turning brightness at night works ok - but then turning it back on during day light is impossible - nothing is visible on that dimmed screen!! Latest Toyota Sienna has all of the climate control buttons (8?) in 1 row, very low, of the same size, barely visible signs on them - recipe for disaster...

I wish these designers and execs would have their kids life depend on it - I wonder if that'd change their thinking...

This whole thing started with Tesla. Re-inventing the wheel because they think they know better. Musk's MO.

Other car makers only see the initial sales and jump on the wagon to copy and undo what was learned over many years to be safer only to then creep back many years later.

Same thing with Apple and removing the ESC key in favor of the touch bar or only having USB-C ports on a power user laptop with video over USB-C still being uncommon in conference rooms.

So much wasted time and resources.

Soon we will have removable batteries in phones and there will be people that have never seen this before...

At least no one died not being able to plug in their laptop in a conference room but someone probably did die operating the AC and hitting a deer because they had to look down.

Hyundai for the win.

They do use touch screen functions --- but mainly for setup and configuration --- not for basic controls while driving.

It's illegal to use a touch screen phone while driving in many areas --- and for good reasons. So why is it ok and legal for manufacturers to mandate the use of their built-in touch screen while driving? Seems contradictory to me.

Years ago I had a Saab.

Everything was a button/knob.

Probably the best car instrument panel I've ever used/seen.

https://i0.wp.com/saabblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sa...

>Brand's design chief commits to "never" repeating the "mistake" of relegating essential controls to touchscreens

I could accept that to never repeat the "mistake" as an apology from VW. But what about those who were supportive of it? We could go back to HN / Twitter history and read more than half of comments at the time thinks physical buttons are old and dump, Tesla has the future done right. That was in the mid 2010s.

Every single time those loud and hype constantly and consistently have it wrong. And every single time, like a PR machine they would go and hype the next wrong thing. But no one would hold them accountable. And the cycle repeats.

Because of that we have suffer from absolute crap over the past 10 years from Car manufacturers. We are lucky a few Japanese Cars manufacture hasn't caught the hype and stood ground. Thank You Mazda.

Presumably like other auto makers will also do, with Euro NCAP giving lower ratings to those who don't?

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-ba...

We can only hope it's the start of a trend. I can't think of a single car feature I would want on a touchscreen instead of a physical control, except I guess something like GPS (which I don't really consider a car feature, but maybe that's just because I'm getting old and curmudgeonly).

A feel like people are missing that this change isn't just for the touchscreen but especially for the abysmal capacitive buttons on the steering wheel VW introduced with the Golf 8 and the id models. One of the worst design decisions I've yet to see in a car. Right next to their decision to put a capacitive slider for volume and/or heating right below the touchscreen where you'd usually rest your fingers when using said touchscreen while driving.

How did it take this long. I was a regular reader of Car and Driver magazine from 2002 to 2006 when I was in high school (in a Detroit suburb) and I remember them absolutely dragging the BMW iDrive system that eliminated a ton of physical controls and took the driver's attention off the road. I've kept my 2010 car largely to avoid getting a system without knobs and buttons that I can learn and use without looking.

I don't know how any auto designer could both regularly drive a car and not immediately reject the idea of eliminating physical controls for wipers/lights/temp control/sound system.

I don’t think anyone ever wished for non-physical controls.

I can understand them in phones, tablets or other small and generic devices, trading ergonomy for portability; the net effect on UX could be positive. But in the context of cars (i.e. large and specialized) I see only net negative UX.

I learned to drive on a stickshift that I put together myself (with a bit of help from my buddies). As a result, I knew how everything worked, and drove it for many years.

The car was totaled on the freeway, so I bought a new Pontiac Firebird stick. One day, I stepped on the clutch, turned the key to start it, and nothing happened. Oh crud. I tried all kinds of things, it was totally dead. Suddenly, the engine did turn over and run.

It turns out, there was a switch behind the pedal, and you had to press the pedal all the way to the floor to trip the switch which enabled the starter circuit.

Some things were just too clever for me!

I think people here should look up a video of Xiaomi SU7 (for instance Doug DeMuro's [0]) They have a big touch screen, but they also have an option of attaching a row of physical buttons underneath, for those who want it. It seems like an overall very good car for a reasonable price, and really shows quite well how overvalued Tesla is. Xiaomi announced that they would start making cars in 2021, in 2024 they sold 135 000 SU7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX3rRntdyYc

This is great.

Dedicated buttons are far easier and faster to operate. Plus if your tablet cracks open you can still control most features. (I think).

For a while I drove some bigger pickup trucks. (Long ago). They often bragged that the knobs and buttons were big enough to be operated with gloves on.

Pretty great when it is cold out. and really easy to operate too.

Modern cars do need a lot more buttons so making them smaller is nessescary.

The physical buttons are so flat and edgeless (except for the raised 3-across row), it's like their listening but not understanding.

'Apple' aesthetic is the worst thing to have happened to industrial design.

Peak UI design in cars hit around the 1980s. All that's needed are a small number of physical controls: headlights, turn signals, wipers, heat/AC, etc.

Anything more than that should work with voice command -- or it doesn't belong in a car.

Wonderful news. I get the value of touch screens for appropriate cases but it's excellent to see common sense return.

Countering the hidden/inaccessible nature of touch screen buttons is the obvious point but also the return to physical buttons stops engineers from randomly moving controls with each new software update - that's what ruins things with much regular desktop software: you learn something, the layout is committed to memory and then three months later the feature is moved!

It's then massively harder to find - you almost never find yourself thinking "ah thank you for moving that, now it's better!"

Good move from Volkswagen. But Mazda gets my credit for being the first to reverse this trend. Hopefully others will follow.

We now need stricter regulations to what extend car makers can embrace the "Software Defined Vehicle" vision without compromising safety. It must be ensured that the driver isn't playing with the touch screen during drive (in non autonomous driving mode) for longer than few seconds.

It’s not just having physical buttons that matters, they must also not have other poor design decisions.

Our secondary, very short trip car, is an old 2008 VW Polo and although it has physical AC and recycle air buttons, they chose to make them be toggle buttons as opposed to ones you can feel/see are pressed in or not.

They have a backlight to indicate their “on” status but (and maybe it’s worse because it’s old) you can’t see the backlight in bright sunlight and I have to shadow them with my hand to see.

The final annoyance with this is if I turn off the car with the fan speed turned to “off”, when I next start the car it has forgotten the on/off state of each of the two buttons.

So these buttons, although being physical, are almost as bad as soft touch buttons. If they had just made them buttons which are either pressed in or out, all these annoyances wouldn’t exist.

Obviously the Polos would have changed completely now, but I haven’t checked VWs much though as in South Africa you get considerably less car for your money compared to most other brands, but VWs still seem pretty popular for what I can only guess is status symbol reasons.

I want an EV and the major thing I'm going to look for is a high number of physical buttons. I have a 2008 GTI and it has a wonderful physical interface. I'm not trading it in for a giant touchscreen I have to navigate while I'm driving. I can't even believe that is what has happened to a lot of cars.

Back in 2021 this was the major reason to not go for a VW but a Skoda. The ID.4 has these ugly touch buttons on the steering wheel and even for the window controls. Skoda uses the same tech but combined with oldschool buttons. They have kept the skoda like third column stock for the cruise control. Still not perfect mind you. Modern cars have so many settings and knobs and features. Don‘t get me started on EU regulations that have to be implemented but are guarded by model year. Example: I can permanently turn off the warning sound in case I‘m driving over the speed limit in my car. Newer cars are required to reset everytime the car starts. Same for settings like driving modes. But that all depends on the model year. Since its software they could roll this out to older models. It makes it a weird experience when driving a newer model which suddenly doesn‘t remember its settings ;)

I also don't want huge monitors. Hopefully the return of buttons and dials reduces those console monstrosities.

I wish there was regulation for limiting what can go in the screen. Only the "new" stuff should go there. The rest, as it has always been, with easily accesible knobs and buttons. Even new stuff should be handled with voice commands. No screen fiddling.

Nice! I drive a 2005 Audi with all physical controls. I intend to keep it for as long as it keeps running, so if the trend continues and more manufacturers join it I may be able to skip the whole huge touchscreen madness altogether

I would like to point to this comment I made 7 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15658982

I own a 2024 VW Jetta GLI. The haptic steering-wheel "buttons" are sloppy and uncertain. I applaud the return to real buttons.

At least my GLI has a physical volume knob and physical heater controls.

The main thing that kept me from getting an Ioniq was the stupid display and no buttons. If it had been cheaper I would have gotten it anyway, but the pundits guessed the sticker price about 10% low and I was not going to bother paying more than I had anticipated and deal with UX rage every time I drove my vehicle.

For some of us a car ride is how we zen out. If you make them anti-zen you will lose customer goodwill.

I’m still a little mad at VW for dieselgate but real buttons puts them back on the list.

It's a great move.

I'd love for the backup cam to be integrated with the mirror as a standard feature. It's available aftermarket. Then a screen isn't really needed at all. It's just one more expensive thing that can break. It would be nice to be able to swap it out with a sub $200 head unit like the good old days.

Car audio was my intro to DC electronic systems in the 90's and I learned a ton from it.

I really liked the rotary knob control in my Mazda 6. It sounds like it is very similar to BMW's iDrive. You still had a touchscreen with menus but you could use either one very effectively. I think the key for either more physical buttons or virtual control like that is to allow the user to make these changes by feel without having to look away from where you are driving.

Can and should be regulated.

I'm convinced that most electronic devices I buy have user interfaces that nobody even tried before shipping them.

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I had an Audi A3 2013. Arguably it had the best physical controls. VW group also did not reinvent the UI with every new model, they prefer to boringly replicate it and have the same location for controls over their different brands. This all canged in their EVs which now have touch screens.

I appreciate that automakers are not doubling down and creating capacitive touch pedals.

This news brought joy back to my life. I live in Berlin and often rent these Miles car share cars. The ID3 is an absolute joy to drive, way better than the Tesla's out there. But for me, those touch buttons are an actual nuisance.

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I figued this was coming when I paid more for the outgoing 2020 GTI instead of the 2021.. but I didn't think it would take 5 years. Nice to see them acknowledge that they made a mistake.

My 2021 Ram truck has a touch screen that must be used to adjust the air vent control. Meaning I have to take my eyes off the road to move the air to the windshield. Dangerous and stupid.

Finally!

At least in Europe most Ford models also have kept most of their physical buttons.

>the volume, the heating on each side of the car, the fans and the hazard light – below the screen,”

Not mentioned: wipers, shifter, and signals. Everyone here should consider these vital to driving the car.

Thank fuck. A company actually responds to demand instead of forcing the most profitable solution onto consumers. It's how markets can work if we let them.

Digital controls make sense once vehicles are fully autonomous, but until then, physical controls are essential!

Does this mean they've given up dissolving infotainment(nav) into the rest of the car as a product? Or something else?

I‘d be interested in an economic comparison. How much does it actually save to replace physical controls with a touchscreen?

What should be considered “vital functions”? Last time I drove an VW car, it had buttons for almost everything, including most infotainment functions, right on the steering wheel and column. Cruise control, lane keeping, all sorts of alert options and so on, all easily accessible.

Do we consider things like air conditioning, heated seats and so on something the driver absolutely needs to change while they drive?

Touch screens & feature subscriptions are things that just don't belong in cars.

I like the touch sensitive controls on my ID4. It's a bit better than some of the "real" buttons on the steering wheel on some of their older cars which were terrible to use. I get the hate but I find it a bit one sided.

That said. It would have been nice if they had made the plastic a bit more premium. The cheap shiny chreaking plastic isn't great. The redeeming feature is the swipe feature for me.

Good buttons will be better.

Cheap plastic crap will review well but won't necessarily be any better to use for me, at least for the steering column buttons.

Somewhat related. What are your favorite physical controls on Digikey?

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Next get rid of glass roofs or option them out.

thank god, having one screen is just one way to break every control you needed

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Please bring back diesel to North America !