Reading reviews of this type of keyboard is really interesting to me because their use is such a subjective experience. I have found that the glove80 has far and away the most comfortable thumb cluster for my hands as well as the most comfortable positioning for my pinkies.

I couldn’t make the corne variants work because tucking my thumbs hurt. The ergodox is too big. Even a keyboard like the ZSA Voyager just doesn’t fit me right. However, the glove80, running a 40 key layout that I’ve come up with after doing a fair amount of heat mapping my own keystrokes, gets rid of all my hand and wrist discomfort. My only complaint is what a hassle it is to haul around.

The only “wisdom” (hard earned) I would pass along is:

- Make a heat map of your keyboard over a few days to see what keys you need.

- tweak your layout to make it easy and comfortable to get to the keys and key combos you use.

- remember you do NOT have to use every key!

I wish manufacturers of ergonomic keyboards would pay more attention to pointing devices. After all, with modern UIs we have to use the pointer. Having a hand jump to a mouse all the time is, at least, distracting.

Another factor is skeletal symmetry. Reaching for a mouse changes the natural balance of posture. I'm not a doctor, but it cannot be healthy over decades. That's why after many years I'm now using the pointing device with my non-dominant hand most of the time. My dominant hand only takes the mouse when I have to do precise or graphic work. This approach makes my back, neck and shoulders feel better.

And the last major gripe I have with most of ergonomic keyboards is how they misunderstand tactile feedback. They try to make all keys feel the same. Glove80 takes it to the limit with its uniform and flat key shapes and identical switches. I don't think this is helpful. Notice how F and J on most keyboards have bumps. Every key should have a bump, a unique shape, a unique surface texture. I want to subconsciously know I hit the right key.

You reference Kinesis in the article so I assume you've seen the Kinesis Advantage 360? I've been a happy Kinseis Advantage user for two decades, and the 360 is pretty much perfect. It has dedicated keys for activating layers, you can remap and configure on a website using web serial, and it is extremely premium looking/feeling. And of course it's very comfortable without the thumb key problem discussed in this article.

I have had literally this exact same experience with the Glove80.

I like everything about it except for the thumb cluster. it is, amazingly, worse than the Ergodox EZ.

I wish the author would spring for a wireless Dygma Defy and tell us how that thumb cluster compares :)

I transitioned from a "normal" keyboard to a Glove80 last year. I immediately didn't like using the standard layout, so I switched to Colemak-DH which I've found pretty comfortable.

The thumb clusters are definitely a pain, I find myself only really using the 3 closest buttons one each side. Even then, the closest button on the upper row requires a stretch that gets uncomfortable after a while. It hasn't been bad enough for me to consider trying other keyboards though--the prices are too high for me to feel comfortable buying something I might not like.

To anyone that switches to a split keyboard, I strongly recommend also getting a trackball mouse (I use a Ploopy Adept). It lets you center the keyboard in front of you without needing to stretch too far while manipulating the mouse.

Yeah the glove thumb pad sucks. Those 2 keys furthest away are impossible with RSI. Surely it's obvious. I'm surprised they haven't refined them.

Apart from that it's a great keyboard.

No discussion about ergonomics is complete without a mention of the Svalboard[0], a spiritual successor to the DataHand you can actually purchase today. I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user who's career has been saved by the Svalboard when no other ergonomic keyboard could.

[0] https://svalboard.com

I kind of regret my glove80 purchase after getting on the ortholinear ergo bandwagon to replace a microsoft sculpt. It's solidly built, happy to support and I'm using it to type this currently as a sunk cost fallacy... but similar concerns re: the inner thumb clusters being difficult to reach without repositioning palms. I've mapped them as: alt and space on the inner left and alt+space (power toys search) and layer on the inner right with another space on the right closer to my thumb. That's the biggest game changer vs. another keyboard: having backspace accessible with the left thumb and space with the right thumb is amazing. I also cannot reach the bottom outer 2/3 buttons with my pinkies and have 'medium' glove hands. Also for the cost, I was disappointed that one can't individually control/map the RGB LEDs so what is the bloody point of having them.

I've usually seen "thumb clusters" used for those style of key layouts, rather than thumb pads.

I've been using some variant of the Kinesis Advantage line for over 10 years - currently the Advantage360, their split board. I used an ergodox for a few years before that.

The Advantages are all 3d curved layouts with thumb clusters like the Maltron, and I haven't had RSI issues since making the move. The 360pro runs ZMK for firmware customization, and the stands do support different tenting angles.

Worth a try if you're looking for a more direct alternative to the Maltron.

Did I just drop acid?

What about Maltron in Colemack?

https://colemak.com/

Or the Dactyl Manuform?

https://nathanfriend.com/2023/06/26/i-built-a-weird-keyboard...

Or Keyzen:

https://store.azeron.eu/azeron-keypads#keypad=keyzen

I just want an MC Escher keyboard, so I can type upside down and sideways.

> I analysed a full day of my keystrokes with xkbcat, which was very useful: my most frequently pressed keys are not what I would have guessed! For example, I discovered that I type ‘>’ far more often than ‘<’6.

Excellent approach, though rarely used in layout design, at most you'd get frequency distribution of typed text instead of pressed keys

> Both hands need access to each of these modifiers, because using a modifier and typing a key with the same hand often involves painful contortions.

While home row mods is a better solution, another alternative is "sticky" mods that would remove the need to hold, so you can use the same hand without pain

> On a normal keyboard, if I press ‘f’ then ‘g’ I can roll from one to the other and press ‘g’ while ‘f’ still hasn’t been released – ‘fg’ will be sent to the computer. With home row mods, this ends up sending ‘G’.

This might be config issue. With a roll you release F before G (your fingers roll off the first key before rolling off the second), so this should type regular FG in properly configured home row mods instead of just capitalized G.

> The practical effect of this is that ‘f’ isn’t sent to the computer as soon as you press down, but only when you release the key.

Are there implementations that send F immediately, but send backspace to delete F if you hold?

While it's missing the concavity of either the Glove80 or the Maltron, I've been so happy with the Keyboardio's thumb cluster (and palm keys) that I'm more than willing to overlook that regression. The Keyboardio's also got a very nice build, and the wood looks great.

I've heard various online stories, over the years, about how nobody nails the ergonomics quite like Maltron does. Which is amazing given how long they've been about.

I have an old Maltron that I got cheap (many years ago and it was old then!) and it's remarkable how unlike a modern consumer product it was. Thin, vacuum formed plastic, point-to-point soldered wire keyboard matrix. But that classic shape, keys with full sized key caps and travel, etc are all present.

The Kinesis I also have is much more mainstream - it feels more solid and looks more like a consumer product. But I understand it's just not quite as good, ergonomically.

I use a Lily58 split/lightly bowled keyboard and it has been a big improvement in many regards. The thumb cluster is a much different approach to the Glove or Maltron, and I think it would benefit people with shorter thumb reach but might feel cramped for those with more mighty talons.

I do bouldering, and I have broken two of my fingers over the years in cycling accidents, and both are ultimately inconsequential compared using/abusing a bad keyboard. If you are thinking about trying a new keyboard design, and you use a keyboard for at least a few hours a day, it will be money well spent.

I wish someone would make a keyboard with keycaps that are like 80% size. I think that would make it much easier to hit some of the keys that are further away.

The article is interesting. I like the heatmap approach and trying to measure the physical differences between both keyboards. This is putting data behind a feeling and it helps looking for improvement. However for other parts of our body (like when going to the gym), I've been told to stretch as much as to exercise. I find odd the focus on reducing stretching in the article. I understand the issue for previously injured people and it is good that ergonomic keyboards and other hardware exist. While hitting the keys, our finger muscles get stronger in a specific movement, but like other muscles, they get shorter. Some stretching helps to keep a balance between strength and motion range. Would it be better to stretch our fingers after a long typing session, or even better, stretch while typing ;-) using some odd placed keys for their gym effect?

I am a big fan of the kinesis advantage keyboards but I really do wish they had an extra thumb key so you could have cmd, ctrl, and option keys on both sides.